God's Calling to Men: Be Kind, Not Necessarily Nice with Ken Harrison

Unlock the true meaning of biblical manhood with Ken Harrison, Chairman and CEO of Promise Keepers, in a conversation that promises to reshape your understanding of kindness and strength. As your host, Pastor Ed Tandy-McGlasson, I'm thrilled to share a dialogue that defies stereotypes, urging men to embrace a robust Christian character. We contrast the passive 'niceness' often expected from men of faith with the assertive kindness exemplified by legendary heroes of the faith and NFL greats. Dive into a revealing exploration of what it really means to be a kind, virtuous man in today's world.

This episode isn't just about reflection; it's a call to courageous action. Drawing from my experiences as a former Los Angeles policeman, I recount moments where standing against injustice wasn't just a choice, but a mandate of true virtue. Together with Ken, we navigate the complex challenges of identity and truth, urging you to stand firm in your beliefs, emboldened by scripture and God's life. Our conversation spans from personal transformation stories within men's ministry to the creation of 'fire teams,' advocating for community and accountability as catalysts for profound change.

Finally, we address the urgent crisis of masculinity, pinpointing the trends that pull men into virtual escapes and away from fulfilling their God-given roles. It's a candid look at the need for risk-embracing living, juxtaposed against a culture that often promotes avoidance and passivity. Hear how living a life of faith and purpose stands as the countermeasure to these societal ills and how, through faith, we can guide others towards more engaged and purposeful living. Join us on this journey to inspire and be inspired, to lead a life marked not only by faith but by action and conviction.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

He was kind, but he wasn't nice. You know, in America we really have swallowed many, many lies in the church. One of them is that a great Christian is the most prudent, milly-mally, spineless guy out there. Right, that being a good Christian means never losing your temper and never cussing and never drinking and never smoking and never really doing anything other than never drinking and never smoking and never really doing anything other than sitting around and going. Well, isn't that nice. And well, it's funny, you know, when I read my Bible in Hebrews 11, god says I want you to take a look at these people. He gives us the hall of faith and says these are who I want you to emulate, and then he proceeds to list the most screwed up list of people you could possibly imagine.

Speaker 2: 0:49

Welcome to the Father Difference Podcast, where we help men learn how to be the father they were meant to be, so that their children can live the life that God has made them for. Each week, you'll find new podcasts and interviews with men who want to make the biggest difference they can. Your host, pastor Ed Tandy-McGlasson, has been teaching and equipping men in events and conferences for the last 41 years in 14 different countries, and now here's Ed.

Speaker 3: 1:21

Well, welcome to Huddle Up Men's Event, where we each month give you a broadcast of one of those guys that I get to do what I did in the NFL. I consider one of God's quarterbacks. I get to play center again, even though I'm retired and I don't need Advil though I'd still take it for this job where I raise my hand and call huddle. I'm calling you guys to huddle around one of God's quarterbacks, ken Harrison, who's the chairman and CEO of Promise Keepers. That was begun years ago with incredible impact and it's ever-growing and reaching so many people through digital media, through their Zoom events, their stadium events.

Speaker 3: 2:08

You'll hear about all that, but he's coming to share with us today about just this whole concept, which is fascinating to me what it means for a man to be kind. Right, the Bible calls us to be kind, but not necessarily nice, and so let's welcome today Ken. Well, welcome, ken. I'm so grateful that you're here. So what do you mean about? How does this start out, this whole idea that you're sharing with us? What does it mean to be kind and not nice as a man?

Speaker 1: 2:43

Well, first of all, I don't want to be a quarterback. I want to be kind and not nice as a man. Well, first of all, I don't want to be a quarterback. I want to be like a defensive end.

Speaker 3: 2:49

I want to hit somebody okay, you can be defensive, end, but realize there's a center. I'm going to get that little nod from the guard and I'm going to hit him on his right booty, which means you got to cover my man. I'm pulling out to get that. You know, lawrence Taylor, ken Harrison, coming from the blind side, baby.

Speaker 1: 3:12

Yeah, I was just like Lawrence Taylor, only a lot slower.

Speaker 3: 3:17

You know, I actually, you know, when I played for the Giants he was a rookie. I had to block him every single day. He was incredible as an athlete, just probably the most gifted defensive end you would ever see. Except my Rams won the championship. Donaldson, I got to shout out my boys, though they didn't give me any love. You know. No ring for retired NFL players, you know?

Speaker 1: 3:48

I mean seriously, is our Eric Donald? Is he? When they say I mean he's just old right, yeah. But when they say he's the best defensive player ever, I'm Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor.

Speaker 3: 3:59

That's right.

Speaker 1: 3:59

I'm sorry you know I can't. Eric Donald is a great player, but there's no way he was a Reggie White.

Speaker 3: 4:06

No, and I got to block Reggie too when I was at Eagles and got to play with them for a while and he was, you know, he'd run you over and then come over and go. Hey man, how can I pray for you?

Speaker 1: 4:21

And that segues to your question.

Speaker 3: 4:24

That's right.

Speaker 1: 4:26

He was kind, but he wasn't nice.

Speaker 3: 4:27

Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1: 4:29

You know, in America we really have followed many, many lies in the church and one of them is that a great Christian is the most prudent, milly-mally, spineless guy out there. Right, that being a good Christian means never losing your temper and never cussing, and never drinking, and never smoking and never really doing anything other than sitting around and going. Well, isn't that nice and well, it's funny. You know, when I read my Bible, in Hebrews 11, god says I want you to take a look at these people. He gives us the hall of faith and says these are who I want you to emulate, and then he proceeds to list the most screwed up list of people you can possibly imagine. He's like be like Rahab the prostitute. Be like Japheth, who went out there and had a great battle and then came back and murdered his daughter because he got a little too enthusiastic there and had a great battle and then came back and murdered his daughter because he got a little too enthusiastic. So these are screwed up, passionate people who say I will not back down from a fight, I will not let evil into my city during the day. You know, think about Rahab. Here she is. She betrays every person she's ever known in her city. They're all going to die because of what she did, because she understands the truth of god's word. So nobody in that list of people, or anybody that we in the proper nice american church would say are godly people. In fact, we would say they're horrible people, we would judge them. And yet god says be like those people, be passionate, fight for you know what does isaiah 117 say? Stand up against injustice, fight for the widow and the orphan. Right? Um, that's who I want to be, man. I don't. I don't want to be nice. Sometimes I'll tell you a story that's kind of funny. I shouldn't say this, but you know, you know me too well, and so I'll start being too candid, right? I remember, um, it's the guys that don't know. I used to be a Los Angeles policeman and so I've been in a lot of fights in my life, and one day I see these people out. It's the day before Thanksgiving, it's snowing outside.

Speaker 1: 6:34

I live in Colorado. Years ago, my boys were both young. They're both big, strapping guys now, but they were I don't know 9, 10 years old. We're at Costco and this boy and girl probably early twenties come up to me and asked me for money, and I could tell they weren't really panhandlers. They really did need money to get home. They really were stranded. So I handed her a box and I drove off. And as I drove off I thought what a knucklehead I am. Why didn't I my wife was at our church serving Thanksgiving meals to the homeless why didn't I take them to our church and then get them a hotel? Why did I just give them $20 and run off? So I tell my boys to screw up. I just did apologize to them for being a bad example for Christ. And so we're going to go take care of those two.

Speaker 1: 7:14

So we turn back around, we get to the parking lot. It's been 10 minutes. I can't find them anywhere. So I'm looking around and so I've got my my foot off the gas of my truck, so it's just idling, going you know a couple of miles an hour. And I look over here. There's nobody, kind of look back over my shoulder and I hear hey, there's violent. Hey, there's a guy who's in front of my truck now who's flipping me off so clearly. He sees me barely coasting. And this guy walked right in front of my truck, flips me off and says I'm gonna effing kill you. Well, he can't see into the truck. He's looking in my headlights so he can't see that I'm a lot bigger than he is. You know this is obviously. This is one of those guys who you know was a high school football star oh yeah so I said, uh, boys, you're about to see a lesson.

Speaker 1: 8:03

So I put my truck in the park. I get out, he takes a look at me. You know I'm 6'3" 230. And he goes oh, hey, you know. And he starts to back up and I go well, I thought you were going to. I thought you're going to kill me there, hero. And so he starts to walk away really fast and he starts to run over to his truck and he jumps in his truck and he locks the door and I go well, I'm still waiting for my lesson. You know what are you doing? And so I got back in my car. My boys were like oh boy.

Speaker 1: 8:29

And I said, look, you guys need to understand that nothing I did was out of pride and I didn't lose my temper. But if he stopped I was going to knock that guy out. And I said, because he's done that to a hundred other guys, yeah, he is humiliated. How many men in front of their wife and in front of their kids? He's done it so many times that he's now staring into headlights of a truck not realizing that the guy behind the wheel is not somebody that you wanted to mess with. He's done it that many times and by me doing that I'll save the next hundred guys from being humiliated by this fool. Now I would argue and a lot of people argue back with me that that is Christian virtue, because I'm standing up for the next guy, because I know how to fight and I'm very comfortable with it and I would have knocked him out in the parking lot and I would have called that Christian virtue. Like I said, lots of people have a problem with me, but I think they would be wrong.

Speaker 3: 9:22

Yeah, well, it's because they translate. They don't understand that meekness in the Bible is not weakness, but it's strength under control. It's used for God's purposes. Right, the Lord's leading you and somebody's attacking your family or challenging what are you going to do? It reminds me of this crazy story with me and Brian Holloway. We were growing up, we were playing pro football.

Speaker 3: 9:49

We're laying low in his car in Northern Virginia going to a gym and these two guys go by. You know they were just, you know they're just two rednecks in a car, right. And they see Brian roll down the window and yell out the N-word and say we're going to kill you. You know you're in the wrong part of Virginia, right. So Brian, you know, rolls down the window and gives him the holy middle finger. These guys get behind us, challenge us, chase us into a parking lot at the gym. Now I'm laying low, like my head is only here on the seat. So is Brian. We both pull our bodies out.

Speaker 3: 10:39

They're only like five foot one. You know Brian's six, seven. Only like five foot one. You know Brian's six, seven, six, eight. I'm six four. I had the dun-dun-duns back in those days and these two guys look at us and they go I didn't know you were so big they jump in the car and take off. We laughed so hard in the midst of that because there are times, especially right now in our culture, where God is saying we're the men, we're the fathers, we're those that are not afraid of being woke out of business right or being marginalized, who are going to stand up in a loving way, but a powerful way, in God's meek way, and say no, no, not that.

Speaker 1: 11:37

I think you're dead on and I think we need to realize what strength is. So how do we know what Jesus loves? We look at what Jesus loves, right. Well, we have this idea of Christ. Well, we forget Jesus was a carpenter.

Speaker 1: 11:50

What was a carpenter in ancient Israel? He was a stonemason. The Romans came in and cut down all the trees and so things, furniture, were made out of stone. So you had a guy hauling massive, couple hundred pound rocks all the time, turning those rocks, rocks, chiseling them out. That was what a carpenter was. So jesus would have been a very strong, strong, thick-handed. I mean, I don't know if he was a big guy, but he was a muscular guy.

Speaker 1: 12:14

And then what does he choose as his disciples? The first three guys, the first four guys he chooses, are fishermen. Well, fishermen spent their entire day hauling these heavy nets up and down, up and down, then hauling them out of the water. You know they're cleaning them all out. They would have been big backed, big traps, strong, and then, when they got into a school of fish, all the other boats would come over and start trying to knock them out of the school so they could get. This isn't fishing for fun, this is fishing for what? Is your wife going to have a nice dress that week? So these fighters fishing.

Speaker 1: 12:43

So this is this band of thugs that comes walking in, not like this heroin addict thing that we see in the movies of Jesus. He's a big, strong guy leading big, strong fist fighting guys, and then he talks about being meek and gentle and loving. So it's important to remember that. The story I told. It's very important that you never do that out of pride. I did that as a lesson to my sons and to defend preacher men from this fool. I did not do it. I've been in enough fights, I don't need to be anymore. But I want guys to see God's not looking for nice guys. In fact, I find nice guys are the ones that quit during the fight or stab you in the back when they're threatened. God is looking for kind men who will stand for what's right.

Speaker 3: 13:21

That's right. That's right. So, when you say to stand up for what's right, because we both understand that, but for guys looking right now and they're facing family issues, schools now, disney right, disney's going to redefine children's early life, right. All that crazy stuff that's going on. So what do guys do and how do they discover that and what would give them the courage to stand up and take a stand? What would you say?

Speaker 1: 13:56

Well, the number one thing is you need to know God's Word, because for you to know what you're supposed to stand on, you need to know His Word. We're living in a time right now where Satan has had all of human history to figure out how to deceive human beings, and it's all coming to fruition at this moment of deep confusion. Um, there's a really great book I'm reading right now. I can't remember the name. It's um, I never remember the name. It's a fascinating book, so so fascinating. I can't remember the name, but it's talking about how there's always been immorality in the world. Clearly we see that in the bible, but this is the first time where people have taken their identity from their immorality. Yeah, in human history, has someone said I am a homosexual? Someone was something else a blacksmith or a philosopher or whatever that had same-sex attraction, but this is the first time people are leading in America and the Western world by their identity. So we need to understand what does God say about those things? So let's take that one. Let's take sexual perversion, or you know lots of guys, some guys listening to this. They've had kids come to them and say they have a problem. Some of the guys themselves may have temptations in those ways.

Speaker 1: 15:05

It says in first corinthians, chapter six, that homosexuals, alcoholics, slanderers, idolaters, adulterers will have no part in the kingdom of heaven. Um, what does that mean? Because the kingdom of heaven is not heaven. Jesus makes it very clear to differentiate. There is being not condemned John 3, 18. If you believe in him, you're not condemned. If you don't believe, you're condemned already.

Speaker 1: 15:33

But then Jesus goes on in Matthew 5 through 7, the Sermon on the Mount. He takes his disciples, goes away from the crowd and says let me teach you guys something. And he just goes on with these very tough demands. Blessed are the poor in spirit. Blessed are the meek. Blessed are you when people persecute you and say all terrible things about you, and then on and about avoiding lust, about picking up your cross daily and following me. What is that? That is how we enter the kingdom of heaven. That is how we enter into discipleship with God so that we have the highest in rewards and crowns of the judgment seat of Christ God, so that we have the highest and rewards and crowns of the judgment seat of Christ. Because you're either going to choose life Romans, chapter 8, walking in the spirit, or you're going to choose death, the flesh walking in the death.

Speaker 1: 16:12

So now we go back to 1 Corinthians, chapter 6, a list of people. God's not saying these people are going to hell. He's saying these people cannot be disciples, they cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven, the kingdom way of living. If I'm loving cowardly Christians say, well, you should go, love those people Absolutely. And how do I love them? By giving them the truth in a loving way.

Speaker 1: 16:37

And so never does God condemn someone for having temptation and sin. He condemns them for carrying out the sin. So we don't condemn someone for being a homosexual, having those desires, but we do warn them if they're carrying out those acts. God's word says, just as he does to the adulterer and the alcoholic, that they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. And so we as brothers want to do everything we can to help people get to the highest level in their Christian walk with Christ that they can be so we are loving to them, which means, by the way, when we do that, people are going to turn around and call us terrible names. And you know I've had all these death threats on my life and whatnot for standing up for truth. That's what goes with the program. But in order to do that, you got to start off by knowing what is it I'm defending. To make sure you're there, because Satan's liars are going to throw stuff at you and you darn well better know what's the truth and what isn't.

Speaker 3: 17:30

Yeah, Well, when Jesus was attacked after he had his coming out day, when God named him this is my beloved son, in whom I love Satan's attack came in on his identity. If you are a son, then do this. In other words, have you seen how the lack of young people and older people having a father, how that has really skewed their whole image and how they see themselves?

Speaker 1: 18:04

Yeah, I go this whole thing with my sons about identity. Who do you see yourself as? Because who you see yourself as is how you will behave in a moment. But in that parking lot I saw myself as a ex Los Angeles police officer who stood up for justice. Right, I didn't stop and think about it. I thought how dare you? How many men have you humiliated? I'm going to make sure you don't do that again. It I thought how dare you? How many men have you humiliated? I'm going to make sure you don't do that again.

Speaker 1: 18:30

How you see yourself is how you will behave, and so we need to get ourselves to seeing our primary identity as sons of God, sons of the living God. I would never want to make my father look bad, and if we have any identity in front of that, then we will not behave, firstly, as sons of god. If I see myself as a cop first or an nfl football player first, that's you and me never good enough. Um, you know, or as a doctor, or as a harvard do it or as a dad, or as a ceo, or as a guy who drives a porsche. There's a million things that men get their identity from that are that are um, some are good or some are bad but our identity. I'm gonna jump into another issue and talk about the race issue, right?

Speaker 1: 19:12

yeah how do we fight racism? Fight racism by understanding that you see yourself as a son of god. Then you see people on a different level. You see them as your equals. I run around trying not to be racist. All I am is just virtue signaling.

Speaker 3: 19:26

But if I understand, that's exactly right. Yeah, yeah, why are the leaders of those movements, by the way, white virtue signaling? But if I understand and that's exactly right, yeah, why are the leaders of those?

Speaker 3: 19:37

movements by the way white, why progressive? You know those kinds of people that are fighting for all that. And yet, as you know, it's a police officer, and I did as a national league football player. You know, I saw the man next to me, not the black man, though he had gifts that I don't have and I can't run a fo-fo in the 40-yard dash Right, but I need him. And together man we're not. That's not the challenge of it. And because aren't those also those places like police officer, all those? Those are all roles that God gives us to fulfill, Because our true identity, you said it, is to be a beloved son.

Speaker 3: 20:18

When our identity is clear, that we're a son, then, like Christ I mean, God didn't call Jesus the King of Kings, Lord of Lords, when he pulled him out of that river that day he said this is my beloved son. The core existence of Jesus was that. And the other thing that I love so much is that, Jesus, you know, there was nothing Jesus couldn't do, except one thing the Son of man can do nothing on his own, but only what he sees his Father doing. So, Jesus, and then I love the end of that verse in Matthew. There it says for the Father himself loves the Son and shows him everything he does. So Jesus lived in that sweet spot of following the Father's working no matter where he was. So it didn't matter if he was persecuted, it didn't matter if his group went from 500 to 12 or from 12 to 500. Jesus' core identity was son first, which enabled him to live out his story without getting discouraged and knocked sideways.

Speaker 1: 21:28

And, by the way, I do have to tell you one more story tell me so, as a guy that you would have been in the league with and I don't remember his name, I think it was billy ray something but when I was on the board of uh fellowship of christian athletes in san diego, uh, he had played for the chargers, linebacker for the chargers, so he about your age, um, but his father had played for the Baltimore Colts.

Speaker 1: 21:50

And so when, when, when this linebacker guy was in junior high school, his dad got into a road rage thing, some guy acting like a knucklehead, and they drove on, and the next day his dad was taken to school again and there was this guy waiting in his car by the side of the freeway in Dallas and jumps out, you know, trying to do something, and run him off the road.

Speaker 1: 22:09

So he says some son, you know, I tried to avoid the fight yesterday, but today obviously I got to do something, so. So he pulls off the off ramp and this, this knucklehead, pulls in next to him and jumps out of the car, starts running at the car. Well, dad jumps out you know, defensive end for the Baltimore Colts and the guy runs right up and he punches him one time and knocks him out into the gutter, gets back in the car drives, drops him off at school. So that night the Dallas police come by, knock on the door. Sir, did you knock somebody out in the gutter today? He says well, yeah, how do you know it was me? They said well, the ambulance took him to the the hospital.

Speaker 1: 22:52

They did an x-ray on his forehead and engraved in his forehead it says baltimore colts world champions oh man, he hit him with a super bowl ring on super bowl ring man no wonder he went night night bootsy I don't know what we were talking about, but it was too good of a story to let pass up no, no, it's really.

Speaker 3: 23:21

It's all about you know, coming into this place for men and you know we're dealing with, like you are online, the men's groups and teaching and everything is that. I had a group of guys in Newfoundland. I didn't even know where Newfoundland was 20 guys show up, all big beards, so I started to interview them on chat. I said well, why are you here? We do free webinars for men and they go. Well. I thought it was interesting. You talked about how to become a good husband and father. I've been terrible at everything. I said, well, scale of 1 to 10, how good was your dad being your father? And I got 19 zeros. And then I said next question was how good have you been as a father? One, two, one, two, one, two, one, two. I said how many of you guys go to church? Three guys said what's that? How many of you guys have heard about Jesus Christ? Who's he Really? I was just like what is it? And then here's my last question what's the number one activity in the town for men? We drink.

Speaker 3: 24:44

So I started sharing about the love of Jesus and John 3.16 and my story, openly weeping. I mean this group of 20 guys openly weeping, and they kept texting what is this? We've never heard this before. Wow. And I said if you want Christ, you can have him. And they prayed. Fifteen of them raised their hands, opened their hands—they're not even charismatic, they don't even know what a charismatic is, they don't even go to church—and they opened their hands just weeping because they had never, ever, been blessed, spoken to by a man. Because, see, part of what men need and it's what's so powerful about promise keepers, about being with other men and being in groups and then having men, there's this transfer of permission when another man blesses another man right and prays for him. Tell me a little bit about how you know, in promise keepers, how you've seen how that's changed the lives of men. Oh, man.

Speaker 1: 25:56

Yeah, the letters I get are unbelievable about lives change. We had an event. Our comeback event was at Dallas Cowboys stadium last July and we had 30,000 guys there. The press reported. It was written up in the Washington Post pretty well. Usa Today came out and tried to cancel us before the event, tried to get AT&T to not let us be there, and then I got a massive amount of death threats.

Speaker 1: 26:18

I mentioned that earlier. I mean you should have seen some of them. I know they were brutal. Does anybody know where this guy lives? We're going to hunt him down. Someone says aren't you, aren't you worried? You know that you get all these death threats. I go. I mean this is some guy sitting in his boxer shorts behind his keyboard screaming at his mom for his meatball.

Speaker 3: 26:37

It's not some navy seal, you know navy seals, by the way, don't do threats they show up in the swimming pool.

Speaker 1: 26:45

Women pull, you're gone, that's right we had 1500 people get saved oh man we had three women ushers who were there, part of the staff who were together crying, and one of our ambassadors walked up and asked them what's going on. They said we need someone to lead us to christ. So, after after nick boychik's altar call led them to Christ, somebody else went into the kitchen and led three of the kitchen staff to Christ because they could hear the altar call going on. It was so powerful and the press couldn't believe. We had 30,000 people in the middle of COVID and all that stuff. So that was phenomenal. We're going to be coming back. We're doing an event in an arena that we're going to announce soon. We're in negotiations with a couple of them in October of 2022.

Speaker 1: 27:33

That's awesome 25 year anniversary of Stand of the Gap, which was 1.4 million men getting to Washington DC. That will kick off a massive tour. We'll go all over the US. It's really time for us to come back. The goal this time, though, is not to have big events. We are having big events, but that's not the goal. The goal is to get men into what we're calling fire teams.

Speaker 1: 27:57

So when I went through Marine Corps officer, canada school fire team is the basic fighting force of the Marines. It's four men, and what we're saying is we've built an app. Guys can get on the app. Right now, there's 35 000 guys on the app and, shockingly, there's like 11 000 that you count regular users. That means they're on a couple times a week, 11 000 different men across the world, so it's very much used. You can just download it the google or the app store or whatever, but we're trying to drive guys into relationship, because we have an epidemic of the friendless american male yes and that's one of the reasons why porn is such a massive problem in the church across america.

Speaker 1: 28:37

It's eviscerating men, it's effeminizing men and um. So we got to get guys to admit that they have a problem. We got to stop church churching each other meaning I'm okay, you're okay, let's all pretend to be nice guys. No, I'm not a nice guy, I'm a broken guy. I got problems, I screamed at my wife, I kicked my dog and I need to be. That's what we need, right that's it.

Speaker 3: 29:02

Yeah, well, we gotta have this honest conversation because, um the the see, I believe the whole social network. You know some of the big guys who started it, they're they're fatherless men, yep, who created a platform so that somebody would become their friend. Yeah, without risk, without risk so you have 10,000.

Speaker 3: 29:27

nobody knows you and you don't have a guy who looks at you and says how you doing? Man, I'm great, great, great, great, no, how you really doing yeah or forgive my sin. But it takes a much bigger level of humility to look at another guy and go. You know I got some issues going on in my life and would you pray for me Until that happens, men stay stuck when they don't have somebody to go to, to get eye-to-eye with, to ask the real is that what your fire teams do?

Speaker 1: 30:07

Yes, it's funny. I just had a guy played played the nfl offensive lineman in the nfl um. He was 40 um and came to me and said I really need to meet with you for dinner. Okay, we got together for dinner and everything was great. I mean, the guy's life's great marriage is great, everything about him, loves, loves, scripture, all the whole thing.

Speaker 1: 30:30

And after three hours of just hanging out and having good brother time I said so what's up? Something's up with you, what's up? He said I love money too much. I just I don't know why, but I love money. I can't, I want to serve God, but his wife's the CEO of some huge company, he's got NFL money and he runs a really great other company. I can't figure it out. And I said to him well, the love of money is really a symptom of some other disease. What you've got to figure out is why is it that you love money? Is it because you need security and you never have enough, which is a lack of faith in the Lord? Is it because you have pride, so you you got to have the biggest house and the biggest car? Is it wanting to conform to others, so you want to belong to the right club and be the right. Like what is it that? There you will find the seed of the evil that's in you that you can wash out. Now, that is what brothers do.

Speaker 3: 31:22

That's right.

Speaker 1: 31:24

He's struggling. I love money and I can't get off it. What? What do I do now? We're following up on that and I've got him in with some other guys that that were other football player guys, cause you guys were all crazy and got hit in the head too much.

Speaker 3: 31:34

So I need to kind of tell me about it.

Speaker 1: 31:38

That's what fire teams do, right.

Speaker 3: 31:40

That's right.

Speaker 1: 31:41

Here's another thing. I'm going to lay a couple of things off on you that are that are very interesting and different, that you won't hear from many people. The first thing is men don't do relationship by talking.

Speaker 3: 31:58

So we have an effeminized society.

Speaker 1: 31:58

We have an effeminized church. Effeminized, not feminized. Effeminized is a negative connotation on that meaning. Our culture says do relationship by talking. Well, we don't talk, we do right. And so you and I can have lunch together once a week for 20 years. We'll never really be great friends.

Speaker 1: 32:12

We might go on a few times, but you know we'll tell stories, we'll laugh and giggle, but when we go skiing together or hunting together, or fishing together or play basketball or whatever it might be, you know when we're skiing and I watch, you take a yard sale and then we go down to the lodge and have a couple of beers and I make fun of you all night. Now we're friends. That's what creates friends, and I saw how you behaved in those moments of stress. You know when we're hunting and you, you missed the shot at the buck, or and I saw you as stressful situations, and I'm realizing whether I can trust you, cause I see what you do, because men throughout the history of the world have needed to interdependence to survive.

Speaker 3: 32:50

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:51

Yeah, our town. I'm a blacksmith and you're the preacher, and someone else is a school teacher and someone else is the baker. And society requires each one of us to step up and do our job, cause if we don't, no one has horseshoes because the blacksmith didn't do his job Right. So we, as men, have to do that. So the fire teams now are based around doing things together. Bible study is great, but that's not going to form relationship. We want guys who have common interests. If you're a golfer, get together with golfers. So that's what we're driving towards, which leads to real, true friendship and relationship. Because now I know what you're really about a year of doing stuff with you I know you way better than I would of 20 years of having lunch and us pretending that we're both great Christians.

Speaker 3: 33:30

That's right. No, that's powerful.

Speaker 1: 33:33

The other thing we have to get to is men are. The number one fear I think most men have is rejection by women. That sounds weird and when you first hear it you're like, really, yeah, when you start looking at violent arguments you have with your wife, issues you have in your life, it's somehow when you feel like she's rejecting you or you don't feel, um, you know properly, I don't know, when you use the wrong word there. You know, loved by her.

Speaker 1: 34:01

Right now, we as a culture to mention social media what we've done is we've taken the risk out of being a man. So my sons will tell me they're in their early twenties that you would never ask a girl out on a date, right? You, you would text her to send you a nude photo. No, they're not doing that. These guys are great Christians, but that's how this culture works. And then you don't face any rejection, you don't? You don't actually. Can I have your phone number? Can I go on a date and risk rejection? Right, we all did that. You went to the school dance. You had to ask the girl to dance with you. She said, oh, you're ugly, go away. And all your friends laughed at you. And I mean, that was our youth right, that's right.

Speaker 1: 34:40

So what we've done in social media is we've taken away the risk of being a man, of being rejected by women. Now here's the other thing we've done. Video games is an epidemic problem. I just talked to a friend of mine who runs a massive ministry I won't say who he is. He told me that they're struggling with 20 or 20 something men who are not having sex with their wives. Their wives are coming in feeling rejected because their husbands now in my 20s Are you kidding me? Like what kind of 20 year oldyear-old right?

Speaker 3: 35:07

Yeah, like what A video game over come on, no joke.

Speaker 1: 35:13

All they want to do is play video games. Because what do video games do? They give you this feeling that you're saving the world without taking any risk.

Speaker 3: 35:20

That's exactly right or playing basketball and never shooting a hoop and missing.

Speaker 1: 35:25

Right Never risking getting your nose broken.

Speaker 3: 35:35

right playing golf and beating tiger woods, but you never show up at the courts and look him in eye to eye.

Speaker 1: 35:39

You don't practice, you don't right? Yeah, all that stuff. So we've, we're taking risk out now. Let me just hold that as a placeholder for a minute. Let me take us back in history for a minute. All cultures of all time have had some form of dueling yes so let's just go to the classic western.

Speaker 1: 35:54

Uh, you know, france or united states. Um, if I insult you, you are compelled to challenge me to a duel. Right? I've insulted you in front of a bunch of people. Now, either you're insulted and your place in society is is really in trouble now, so you challenge me to a duel now I have to accept or my part in society. So now we're in a situation where one of us could die.

Speaker 1: 36:16

That's right for real people were so polite, right, seriously, I mean you think about? I mean I have an english lit degree so I've read all these old books and people are like ridiculously polite because I don't want to offend you and you don't want to be offended.

Speaker 3: 36:29

That's right.

Speaker 1: 36:29

Right Now, that kept going. You're looking about the old West. The old West was just guys doing you know programming, they go out there and you know bang bang. Now that kind of went out in the late 1800s but we still had fist fighting. I mean, all through our generation, even in high school.

Speaker 1: 36:44

Right, you say something wrong, and and and we would punch each other and the teachers will go hey, you asked for it. You know you shouldn't have called him a blankety blank. So you think about a culture of masculinity. Yeah, all those involve risk risk of offending somebody, at risk of getting hurt, risk of female rejection. Now we're living in a culture where there's no risk of any kind. I can sit on social media and call you a giant turd and there's nothing you can do about it. Right, I can have some idiot. Hey, let's hunt this guy down. We're going to kill him Really. But all through human history he would have had to find me and say that to my face. You don't have to say it to my face anymore. He can put it on some kind of blog somewhere.

Speaker 1: 37:30

So we are trying to deal with now a culture in which our young boys are not learning to be men because our culture has removed all risks, or as much as they can, and they're living in a fantasy world that somehow they can get through life without risk. Now, that will all come crashing down at some point. We, as men of God, need to be ready to catch that thing when it collapses. And so the men who have stood strong, who know the lord, who know themselves, whose identities in being sons of god, are going to be ready when society crashes. Because, uh hey, I just had somebody here tonight to tell me that her husband was on a phone call with his IT team and one of the guys in the IT team is a trans woman and and said I don't feel very good today.

Speaker 1: 38:15

I'm having woman problems. Okay, this is a guy with a dress on. I mean to have woman problems. And she said you know, her husband had a hard time keeping his mouth shut because it's an HR nightmare. But at some point we're all waking up to the ridiculousness of where we're living. We've reached a level of foolishness that is insane and the world's going to wake up for it, and when it does, we, the men of God, have got to stand there and be ready to rescue people, tell them about Christ.

Speaker 3: 38:50

And when we do, most people are going to hate us?

Speaker 1: 38:52

Jesus promised they would. That's where they'll start, until we connect them to the one who takes the hurt out of them, the ones who choose him, the ones who choose life over death. That's right, you know. The disciples earned the right for Jesus to call them friends. He said today I call you friends. I no longer call you slaves, because a slave doesn't know what his master is doing, but I am revealing my will to you. Today I'll call you friends. Why were the disciples called friends? After a period of time? Because they persevered with Christ. What's the next thing he tells them? He says here's the good news You're my friend. Here's the bad news.

Speaker 3: 39:28

The. The bad news. The world's not going to hate you. That's right, and blessed are you when you're persecuted for my sake. Matthew, chapter five, that's right. And so that's all part of the the process. Because you know um john wimber in heaven.

Speaker 3: 39:34

He was one of my spiritual dads and but he said something that that a young football player and he taught this and said to me privately. He said you know, ed, faith is spelled R-I-S-K. Yes, if you're not willing to stand on what God's promise is and risk your reputation, even your life, for doing what he's called you to do, you will never experience what it's like to live by faith. And we've been called as men by God to live by faith. And we've been called as men by God to live by faith.

Speaker 3: 40:05

I mean, our country wouldn't have been founded if it wasn't for men and women who decided I mean, think about Christopher Columbus getting in a boat and challenging that the earth was flat and first of all, they don't have a compass, they don't know what's up is up and down is down. They had stars and they just persevered. And God met them in that journey in extraordinary ways. And so what would you say? You know, as we kind of tie these together. Give me kind of your, you know, three or four kind of bullet points of what you can tell men that are watching right now so they can take the next step and start entering to this life of what it really means to be a godly man. What would you tell them?

Speaker 1: 41:03

Well, thanks for that invitation. Let's let's go do a little round through scripture. So hebrews 10, 38 says but my righteous one will walk by faith, and if he draws back, my soul has no pleasure in him okay, I want to I want my lord to have pleasure in me right, and that requires me walking by faith, and faith is action, as you said.

Speaker 1: 41:22

that's right. Ephesians 8 and 9, we all know the verse For by grace you're saved through faith, and this, not of yourselves, is a gift of God, lest none of you should boast. Essentially, hebrews 8 and 9 says that we contribute nothing A quote that was attributed to Jonathan Edwards, but I don't know if it was related to him. But we contribute nothing to our salvation, except for the sin that may have nailed our savior to the cross.

Speaker 1: 41:45

There we go. That's right. He 10 says now. So, right after saying that, paul says for we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, they were prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. We should walk before we were born, each one of us. The moment we got saved, we became born again. We became babies, we became a child that now needs to grow. And the Lord says he has a mission for us to accomplish and we either will or we won't. Sin will keep us from accomplishing that mission. Selfishness will, a lack of understanding scripture, a lack of being on our knees in prayer, seeking the Lord in relationship with him. So each one of us who've given our lives to christ have a mission god has for us. We've got to seek that mission out. How do we seek that mission out? Hebrews 10 38 we need to walk in faith.

Speaker 1: 42:36

Romans, chapter 8. In romans 7 you have paul talking about the conflict of the human being right outside of Christ. And at the end of Romans 7, he goes the things that I'm supposed to do, I don't do, and the things that I don't want to do, I do. Oh, wretched man that I am, who will rescue me? And then we have those great words that start Romans 8. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Now, throughout romans 8, paul goes to describe what being in christ jesus means. A lot of people stop at salvation. Well, I said the prayer. I believe now that got you born again. Being in christ jesus. Paul says if you walk in the spirit, it's life. If you walk according to flesh, it's death. Yeah, he's talking to believers.

Speaker 3: 43:22

That's right.

Speaker 1: 43:24

If you choose your flesh, if you choose to please yourself, if you choose not to seek out the mission God had for you Ephesians 2.10, you will die. You will die in your relationships, you will not have joy, you will have failed marriages, you'll have screwed up kids because you have no wisdom for it. If you choose the narrow road Matthew 5 through 7, the Sermon on the Mount you will have life. You will have intimacy with Christ. You'll have strong marriage with your wife, unless she's not a believer. You will have wisdom to give your kids and lead them in the right way. And even if they go off bad look at Franklin Graham with Billy they will come back. So you either choose life or you choose death.

Speaker 3: 44:03

You know, there was an evangelist in Palestine who's walking down the street and sees Franklin Graham with long hair having a coffee, walks over to him, looks him in the eye and says I got to tell you what are you doing. Wakes him up. He has this incredible encounter with Franklin and the next thing you know he's sitting in the seat of his dad, standing up as a man, fulfilling who God's called him to be.

Speaker 1: 44:41

You remember who that evangelist was?

Speaker 3: 44:43

I don't have his name off the top of my lips. I'm at that age.

Speaker 1: 44:47

Well, you know, billy called James Robison and James Robison is my spiritual father and said, james, I need you to go find Franklin. And I have not heard that, so I don't know if that was James.

Speaker 3: 44:59

It could have been James.

Speaker 1: 45:00

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 45:01

Yeah, and see what's so powerful about that? Is that what you're saying and the way you're describing this for guys that are watching right now? How many of you guys that are watching are completely alone in your story. You're stuck in shame. You hate where you are. You feel behind. Your wife isn't, you know, honoring you. You're even fearful about what to do there. Your children are giving you whatever face right, and what men need, what we need as men, is another guy to look us in the eye and say let me tell you something, this is how you do it, this is how you do it. Follow me, man. That's so powerful for us as men, when another man gives us permission by. First of all, the most powerful thing we can do right is to live it, and it's not the truth, you know, that sets you free. It's the truth you do Amen. You know that sets you free is the truth you do. And when we live it.

Speaker 3: 46:07

And then we look at—I remember years ago. You know a pastor in a local church. You know it was like the Lord was saying to me one day. He says why are you teaching all the things you know? Why don't you teach the things you do and why don't you follow you? It changed our whole church and I said, look, you might get the same sermon for the next four weeks. That's because I only know one thing. I'm only doing one thing, right, right.

Speaker 3: 46:31

And so it's the man who becomes incarnational and lives that life as a husband to a wife and as a father to his kids. That's, by the way, how you protect your children from the wackadoodle world. You be a father that they watch. You pull off the side of the road and say son, here's a little lesson. This guy's threatening our life. I'm just going to go. Hey, look at all this and they'll go. Dad, what are you doing, dad? What are you doing? It's like a scene from the movie Apostle with. Who was that famous actor? Robert Duvall? Yeah, because I'm fixing to help this guy understand the gospel the preacher's out in the front beat.

Speaker 1: 47:25

I tell a story about my wife who was always pulling over to help people and witness to people. She's such an amazing woman of God. She's five foot 315 pounds. One day tells me she was so happy and she helped these two migrant workers that they had. They were pushing a freight tire down the road, so she stops, puts them in her minivan and brings her to a tire shop, buys them a new tire and witnesses to him, drops them back off and I'm like, okay, you pick two strange men up and you put them in your van and you're dropping.

Speaker 1: 47:56

Well, ken, I was, you know, giving him gospel. I said, okay, no, my LA cop, baby, I appreciate that you're doing that, but if for them to kind of assault you, they're going to have to take their seatbelts off. So what you want to do is you push the gas down with everything you got. When you get to about a hundred miles an hour, you slam on the brakes. I'm trying to tell them about Jesus and I said, well, I just want to tell you how to get them to them sooner.

Speaker 3: 48:35

I love that, ken, because you know what it's like. You know just you being you today, just on this time. We have no idea that the way we live our life with God in front of other men gives men permission to say it's okay to be a man, it's okay to be strong, it's okay to have opinions, it's okay because it really is Christ in us that changes us, Because God's promise in Ephesians is that Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord, jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing. That's how we change. We need God's blessing.

Speaker 3: 49:20

And my favorite verse, which actually turned my whole story around as a man a little further down in verse 4, it says even as he chose us before the foundation of the world and I remember when I read that I was just I'd still get undone that God chose Ken and Ed and every man that's watching, before the foundation of the world, before Jesus said let there be light. God said in his mind this is what I've made Ken for, this is what I've made Ed for, this is what I've made you for, if you're watching, which means that no matter if you came from the best family in town and born on Gucci sheets, or you were a failed attempt at an abortion and you survived with no mom, maybe no dad. God has an eternal purpose in his heart for you as a man, and when you discover it in Christ and learn to receive those gifts, you'll feel alive for the first time as a man. Whether you're standing up and teaching your son about dealing with a hoodlum, or you're going in and throwing on those floaties and you're jumping in that estrogen river where your wife lives, where that monster lurks that wants to eat you up as a man, and you'll survive. You'll tread water a lot, but God will enable you. Tread water a lot, but God will enable you.

Speaker 3: 51:09

Ken, would you pray for the men that are watching right now? There's guys I know that are watching who've been away from Christ or maybe never really totally received them in their life and they've never really been given permission just to be a man. They've been, you know. They've been sidelined by social media and video games, or maybe porn has grabbed them and they're all sitting there going. Man, that's me. Would you pray with them? Yeah?

Speaker 1: 51:43

Father, I ask for your blessing on the men who are listening to this. I ask, right now some of them are hearing the voice of the enemy who's whispering in their ear. You think you want to change, but you can't. You're condemned, you're not loved, you'll always fail, because we're born with that ability to hear Satan's voice, because every one of us was born a slave of sin, a slave of Satan, until you came and you washed us clean. But that voice is still there and I pray, lord, you would shut that voice off to all those who realize that, if they confess their sins, we're faithful and just. We'll forgive them their sins and cleanse them from all unrighteousness.

Speaker 1: 52:21

That's not a verse for the unbeliever, that's a verse for the believer to be washed and clean. We all want to get to heaven, like in Revelation, chapter 6, where we're wearing the white robes. That are the robes dipped in the blood of the Lamb the forgiveness of sins. Lord, the world lies to us, satan lies to us, and right now we're being told not to be men, when it's the very thing that that people need so desperately a strong, masculine, loving, gracious men, men who will fight, not out of pride but out of love for truth out of a hatred for evil and for seeing people be lied to, for seeing women be oppressed.

Speaker 1: 53:02

So, lord god, I pray that you would capture them, these men, right now, that the truth would not fall by the wayside. It wouldn't fall on a thorny path, the stony path, but it would fall on ears who want to hear and listen and obey, so they can produce fruit 30 fold, 60 fold or a hundred fold, as you say in scripture. Lord God, I pray that they would not apologize to anybody for being a man, but they would be gentle, loving men like you were in Scripture, powerful and strong, a stonemason, muscular and yet meek, and loving the lamb that voluntarily went to the slaughter for the good of many. May we all emulate who you are, jesus, in your name.

Speaker 3: 53:41

Amen, amen. Thank you, my brother. You are a blessing and for everybody that's there, give them all the links again. We're going to throw them up on the screen to be a part of what you're doing. Go for it.

Speaker 1: 53:56

Yeah, let me just say this, that on April 28th we put out an event called Sexual Integrity Event. I think it's called Freedom. I never know the names of anything we do, but it's unbelievable. We've got John Bevere speaking, we've got Derwin Gray and we have some guys answer some really tough questions. What do I do about same-sex attraction? What if my child comes to me and says I'm a transvestite? How do I kick pornography? I'm a transvestite. How do I kick pornography? It's a.

Speaker 1: 54:25

It's a program that you can watch. It's only an hour, is very hard hitting. And then there's a 30 day challenge on the app the promise keepers app that you can go to. That goes in a deep dive into your particular issue and helps you find cleanliness. As you said, it's not feeling good, it's not believing the right things. It's what did you do? That's what did you do. That's what makes you a man. What do you do, not what you say. So don't listen to this and say I'm gonna try really hard because I feel bad. No, well, we're.

Speaker 1: 54:53

Yeah, I choose life and I gotta make the action to do it, and part of doing that is, if I want to be a good offensive lineman, I gotta lift weights and run sprints and sweat and smash heads with people all day long and go through all that pain. For that, that three hours of glory on Sunday. Well, want to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. You got to put in the work and so the promise keepers event, that, the sexual integrity event that we had. We have other virtual events that we did as well on leadership, on being a father, and we have viewership of over a million guys on a lot of those. In fact, one of them we had 1.4 million people across the world watch these virtual events. So these are very well attended, they're very well done and I can't suggest enough to your guys that they go get the app and watch that program.

Speaker 3: 55:35

That's all right. So check out the app. We're going to put it on the screen right now and for you to go there and sign up, guys. Well, I sure believe in what you're doing. I'm praying for you and we have, as a gift for everybody that's watching, my first book, the Difference a Father Makes, which we are now over 400,000 books either downloaded or sold. I wish they were all sold, that would be really good, but we have over 100,000 downloads in the last 12 months. Wow, guys, who are starting to understand about what it means to be a father, be a husband and be blessed by God. So if you want that, it will be there as well for you. So if you want that, it'll be there as well for you. And remember, it's never too late for God to turn around your story and make you into the man he has dreamed you to be. Bless you guys.

Speaker 2: 56:34

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